Talk:Sentinel Army
Going to be blunt, I do not think the insignia's match the Sentinel army. The symbols that have been created and spread around the wiki certainly match human armies, they even match dwarves and the Grand Alliance army, but the Sentinels? That's a bit of a stretch. Their uniforms don't really allow for patches or pins to show off a fancy rank on a piece of purple cloth, and as far as I am aware the sentinels don't have any dress uniforms like modern militaries do. Obviously fanon project is fanon, so do what you like, but personally as far as my own headcanon is concerned, I just can't see the Sentinels using anything like this to differentiate rank, especially since they don't really seem to have a ranking system. With the exception of General Shandris Feathermoon, High Priestess Tyrande Whisperwind and Moon Priestess Amara, all the other Sentinels just seem to go by that simple rank, Sentinel. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that they use any other ranking system, at least not that sites like wowpedia can show me. Aretain King (talk) 14:30, June 7, 2016 (UTC) For the insignias, I may make some changes. However, I do think they would have some form of it in combat uniform. As for ranks; I believe that the Sentinels do have some sort of ranking system, however much more condensed than the human armies and such (hence why I gave them only 10 in total), as there are two NPCs I found on Wowpedia that suggest they have some type of ranking hierarchy other than Sentinel and General. The two NPCs are Lyalia , who's a Sentinel Commander, and unnamed, who is a 'Sentinel Leader '. — Varadu (Jak) (user talk) 21:53, June 7 (Tuesday), 2016 (UTC) Well, since you asked for feedback... My personal opinion? Not a big fan. I'd assume that the Sentinels would have some sort ranking structure of sorts, so I'm not arguing that point. However, the Night Elves have been around for 10,000+ years. Yet here they have an extremely similar ranking structure to the Human armies, that they met approximately 30 years ago. The similar ranking structures weren't a problem with the different Human armies, because it fitted well due to their common roots, and yet diversified because of their differing cultures. But the Night Elves were a continent away, secluded for millennia. Why would they have a structure nearly identical to them, when their cultures are so different? The same point can be made for the rank insignias. Their format is identical to that of the Human armies and the Grand Alliance army and navy that they've met what could be considered only a short time ago, considering their lifespan. Furthermore, the Sentinels' usual armour is notoriously revealing, as can be seen on the images in the infobox and in the "Armor and Equipment" section. There would be little room for rank insignia to begin with. As a fanon project, this is yours to do as you will. But personally, I would cut from "Master Chief Sentinel" to "Master Sentinel" and go with a slightly smaller command structure, as well as changing the insignias to something more befitting the long-lasting culture of the Kaldorei, maybe something that could plausibly either fit on their armour or simply be carried around by them. They don't really seem to have any formal uniforms of sorts, so I think that it would likely be something more practical. Aeliren (talk) 22:08, June 7, 2016 (UTC) I have to agree with you in some areas. I'll probably tweak around with the rank names, and the insignias as well. On the point of their exposed armor and such, I still think there's room for an insignia, such as on the shoulder. They do have a patch of armor there, where an insignia could be attached in some way (i.e. embroidered cloth attached to the plate). — Varadu (Jak) (user talk) 22:25, June 7 (Tuesday), 2016 (UTC) I do agree with Aeliren on that. We have had issues with GAN/GAA fanon where much of the rank system is too similiar. While a middle ground must be met, the rank structures -must- be more seperate and unique! The removal of certain U.S. military themes may prove useful (Which can be seen in GAN fanon, where we have blended different military styles and rank titles to create some different). Something like this, adopted into the Sentinel Army may be nice. Perhaps look at translations for Asian military ranks? I believe they have some interesting names if I'm not mistaken. Admiral Ranets Daggerfang (talk) 23:15, June 7, 2016 (UTC) I agree with what Rane has suggested, looking at the naming styles of other languages armies can give some interesting ideas for rank names. For example, when doing the Enlisted ranks for my Rostkammyr Military page I dropped Corporal/Sergeant completely and replaced them with "Leader" and "Master" respectively, partially basing it on Germanic rank structures. Personally I would use Pseudo-Greek based names for each rank, along with a lot of Oriental influence, but that's mostly due to an extrapolation of the High Elves being the Greeks in my fanon. Generally I would also split the styles of ranks like this: Kalimdor Races (Nelves + Draenei) *Simplified rank structure, either due to major loses in population meaning that large units are no longer fielded (Draenei) or not having as much combat for 10,000 years (Nelves). *The Night Elves take the old military rank structure of the Night Elven Empire, but simplify it and take away much of the "fancy stuff". *The Night Elven Military also has a lot of Oriental influence, contrasting with the Helves' Greek influence. *Meanwhile, Night Elven insignia can be based on Oriental and Ancient Greek Insignias Eastern Kingdoms Races (Humans, H/Belves and Dwarves) *Complicated rank structure, using the style we use currently for GAA/GAN ranks. *Ranks are very interlinked, due to lots of contact between each races compared to between the EK races and the Kal races. *Rank structure is more complicated due to the higher chances for combat between the Kingdoms. **Combat between kingdoms has to have occured for the fact that the Humans had professional armies and Kul Tiras being a Naval Superpower to have happened. Had there been no conflict then this would not have occured. *In the case of the Helves, they take the old military rank structure of the Night Elven Empire, but keep much of the "fancy stuff" and "complicated stuff", due to the higher chances for conflict, conflict happening soon after the creation of Quel'thalas (looking at you, Troll Wars) and the fact that the High Elves were the noble and upper classes of the empire. *The military of the Helves is mostly based on the Greeks (I will be writing up a page for them when I get a chance), but with more of a focus of Archers instead of Hoplites (although the main melee units of the Helves are apparantly spear-armed, according to Tides of Darkness) *In the case of the Humans, most of their military heritage comes from the Arathi Empire and is Roman based. Again, I will end up writing a page on the evolution of the Arathi/Roman style ranks (Centurion, Tribune, Legate, etc) to the GAA style we use for the common day. Also, at Aretain, the insignia aren't made of cloth (not counting the navy Enlisted SRIs), at least in my view of them. The Enlisted insignia are metal badges, while the shoulder boards are either epaulettes or shoulder guards. Vannesira Smith (talk) 00:55, June 8, 2016 (UTC) Ah, I like your description, Vann. And yeah, I see them as metal badges for the enlisted. Also, I just shortened up the ranks and finished the updated insignias: Opinions? — Varadu (Jak) (user talk) 01:40, June 8 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC) Army ranks aren't my thing, but for what my opinion's worth, I like them. Though I would add one or two more to represent the different specializations of the Sentinels. I don't recall the source, but I believe somewhere it was stated that the sentinels were divided into two categories; reconiassance and infantry. Elbert Doomray (talk) 01:59, June 8, 2016 (UTC) Thanks Elbert. I'll actually be adding divisions soon, and possibly will have the ranks re-named based on the division (for say Hippogryph riders, Nightsaber riders (Huntresses)). — Varadu (Jak) (user talk) 02:03, June 8 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC) I think in a case like this (and perhaps with most military pages) it might do you all well to add citations to try and connect what you're doing to canon in some sense, or provide an example of how you're expanding upon what is provided in canon. So if there is a General you can reference, link them, same for the other ranks. While it is fanon, there's always somewhere in the canon to find what you're looking for! I do however like the new insignia's, but I don't think they would have them on any sort of purple cloth as sentinels and night elven militants don't generally have anywhere to put that to distinguish rank. It might be better as a medal of sorts. But I'm rambling, good work with what you're trying to do here. Perrington (talk) 18:39, June 8, 2016 (UTC) That may be a good idea actually, given I based this off of as much canon as I could -- but, I'm not sure where to put the citations. Mm, I see your point. I'm going to take out the cloth background and just give the plain metal glaives for the insignia. Those could easily be placed somewhere on the Sentinel's uniform. Thanks, and the feedback is much appreciated. — Varadu (Jak) (user talk) 19:38, June 8 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC) Looking at the source from the boxes that hold the insignias, it might be easy to just do... !General of the Sentinel Army(reference here, you know the source for that ofc) Which would then place the reference number in the title section of the box. Edited because apparently writing that in visual DIDN'T MAKE IT NOWIKI. Perrington (talk) 19:49, June 8, 2016 (UTC) |}